Fratello Talks: Cut The Excuses And Just Enjoy Watches

Don't let others' opinions get in the way of personal enjoyment

March 21, 2024

comments 57

Hi there, and welcome to a new episode of Fratello Talks. Excuses, excuses, excuses… Letting them get in the way of a good thing is a shame. So it’s time to cut them out and enjoy watches. This is this week’s topic of discussion, which Nacho, Lex, and RJ explore in detail. It’s an interesting phenomenon that we’ve observed lately. A new watch is announced, and out pour the single-phrase comments providing personal justification for the lack of intention to purchase. It all results in a rather dull, nasty, and repetitive rabbit hole of cynicism. But why does this happen? Is it a FOMO-induced face-saving reaction? Does it have more to do with how information is shared online? Or is it just the nature of online comments? And can’t we just cut it out and enjoy watches regardless?

Well, we’ve got some thoughts on the matter, and we’re sharing them today. But not before we share with you the watches on our wrists.

Wrist check

We start with Lex, who is wearing a perfect example of the point we want to make here today. It’s the Maurice Lacroix Aikon #tide Benzilla special edition. Did Lex ask himself a lot of questions before buying this one? Clearly not! It must have been love at first sight. All jokes aside, it does prove part of the point. Not every purchase (especially at this price point) needs to be overly justified, and though critique is necessary, sometimes it’s okay to have fun.

Today, RJ has gone with his Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600. Let’s call this one the exception that proves the rule. This particular Sea-Dweller is not RJ’s first; he sold that one. But absence did what it does and made his heart grow fonder of the watch. After a hiatus and a bit of a search for the right one, the man and his watch were reunited and will not likely be separated any time soon.

And finally, Nacho, who is wearing his Breitling Aerospace ref. F65362. Is it a perfect watch? Far from it, but it’s one that he enjoys well beyond initial expectations. It was curiosity that got him hunting for one of these watches. After tracking this one down for the right price, he was seriously impressed by it in person and decided to buy it. Is the AR coating scratched? You bet. Is the bracelet loose and as rattly as can be? For sure. And should the rider tabs be gold? That too. But none of these small details bother him, and he can enjoy and appreciate the watch every time he wears it.

Speedmaster collection — Image: Juko

Fratello Talks: Cut The Excuses And Enjoy Watches

“Nice watch, but it’s way too expensive.”

“If only they had made it 38mm, I’d buy one.”

“Only 50m water resistance? Is that a joke?”

Excuses and single-phrase dismissals of a watch are something we see all the time in the comments here or on forums and all over social media. But are they spoiling the fun of admiring watches that don’t fully align with a widely held definition of “perfection”? We think so. Keeping a critical eye on these products is all well and good. In fact, it’s necessary to ensure that brands are kept accountable for what they do. But there’s a point where keyboard warriors get riled up beyond logic, and that’s no fun for anyone involved.

Image: Tim Vaux

In today’s episode, we discuss the topic and come to several conclusions, wrapping things up at the end with a piece (or two) of advice. Ultimately, we should all be able to enjoy the hobby and not let it become a source of cynicism and negativity. Instead, we should all just be able to enjoy watches regardless. To quote Fratello contributing author Tim Vaux, “Don’t let the quest for finding the perfect watch get in the way of owning a great one.”

What are your thoughts on this nuanced topic? Let us know in the comments section below.

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Fratello Talks: Cut The Excuses And Just Enjoy Watches

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berantle says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 07:37

Rarely comment after listening to the podcasts but this I have to wholeheartedly agree with. People just need to enjoy the watches. There is no obligation to buy the watches featured. There is no need to justify not buying the featured watches.

Some of the reasons given by the posters against the watches featured read like ridiculous nitpicking. It is often obvious that they have no intention of buying the watch at all and just commenting for commenting sake. Many of those comments make me roll my eyes.

One pet peeve that I often encounter is that a number of these posters think that their preferences are the only ones that matter and that watchmakers have to build only to their exact preferences.

Reply
1. AF
  Freeza says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 10:42
  
  💯
  
  Reply
2. MartinM says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 12:23
  
  👍
  
  Reply
3. MM
  mpmiller30 says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 12:24
  
  Our watch community should be for discourse…otherwise it’s not a community. However, communities tend to break down when discourse turns to personal and is driven by a few nattering nabobs of negativism. Let’s keep it real but ensure we don’t drain the fun out of our hobby!
  
  Reply
4. DK
  Ayreonaut says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 13:27
  
  “just commenting for commenting sake”
  
  Not that there’s anything wrong with that. We are all here top have a good time. This should be a place where people can enjoy some good natured banter. I pretend that we are all friends and I’m free to just say what’s on my mind.
  
  The fantasy is that maybe the watch brands will read these comments and take note. Can you imagine if Omega started making thinner watches after reading tens of thousands of comments to that effect? Neither can I…
  
  Reply
5. DM
  TacoPants says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 14:00
  
  If us enthusiasts have a fundamental fault, it’s most certainly “loving too much” 🤣
  
  I think our criticism comes from a pace of passion, not just wanting to see the world burn. But I can certainly see how we come off that way!
  
  Reply
Bella says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 08:03

Fully agree. I do think some comments are from people who genuinely do like a release, but are glum because they can’t buy it for x, y, z reasons. But with that said, there’s a difference between “Oh I like that! Hope they release a 38mm one day!” vs. ““If only they had made it 38mm, I’d buy one.” – one is just a debbie downer to read lmao.

Reply
1. SC
  Tam O' Banter says:
  
  Mar 22, 2024 at 04:46
  
  The most ridiculous comment I can remember from another site was “At 39mm this is too small for me. I need at least 40mm.”
  
  I have no problem with criticism. I criticise and praise sincerely and often. And I can’t help wondering whether this particular episode was due to a desire on the part of the owners of the site to tamp down negativity due to the possibility of pushback from certain brands. For myself, there is a line…and that line has been crossed repeatedly by others without moderation. But apart from a few bizarrely obsessed individuals who might need some counselling, I think we do alright here at Fratello. 🙂
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Mar 22, 2024 at 14:39
    
    Agree 👍🏻
    
    Reply
  2. Enuona says:
    
    Mar 22, 2024 at 15:52
    
    Right or wrong, I believe there are some rationale in practical terms behind some nitpicking about mm’s too. What sits well on the individual’s rist is ok and personal related to wristsize and preferences/usage and so on which will be a just cause for many. I don’t have to worry about that, whilst others do.
    
    But there’s another side to it as well. For field/tool usage it has to do with light opening which is relevant for reading by the glance but comes with a penalty. To achieve the same level of robustness for a wider diameter of lightopening, the thickness of identically shaped sapphire of the same grade has to increase and/or some sort of protection by a higher fixed bezel or a rotating bezel would come into play.
    
    That’s why I differ between fixed and rotating bezels and would be more cautious about sapphire extending above the bezel. A 40mm watch with a wide/high rotating bezel will typically have a smaller lightopening than a fixed bezel one, thus i can get away with a smaller watch having the same light opening and legibility.
    
    As a consequence I am more aligned with Goldenyears and would want smaller watches when it comes to fixed bezel stuff like field watches proper. The recent RZE is probably fine, but I still belive it would have been better by being more robust if brought slightly down in size.
    
    It’s just a pragmatic and practical approach to it which don’t involve how well it cuddles the wrist.
    
    Reply
  3. Luke says:
    
    Mar 24, 2024 at 12:47
    
    I’m with you on the size thing. 39mm vs 40mm doesn’t really tell you much about the watch and it’s wearing experience. I’ve had plenty of both sizes and it’s not uncommon for certain 39mm watches to wear larger than another 40mm watch. To just look at dimensions on paper and write a watch off is close-minded and can really prevent us from just enjoying our watches.
    
    Reply
Fabi says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 08:45

So true what you guys say. I could comment almost on every watch beeing too big, having tiny 14.5cm wrists. I started climbing over a year ago, my forearms got more muscular but my wrists are still tiny 🙂
It is sad to dismiss watches at first sight, I think handling the watches in the metal is very important because sometimes you can’t understand the prices until handle them. For example I would love to check out Fortis or Doxa watches, I think they are expensive for the specs but I have no clue how they feel. Too bad there is no dealer anywhere near me, so I have to enjoy them from a distance.

Reply
berantle says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 10:10

Now that the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms 42mm is officially announced as a regular production model and addresses many posters’ lament that the watch be 42mm when the series production was only offered as 45mm, I expect to see comments when the announcemeng is posted in Fratello that the Fifty Fathoms 42mm is too hig and that it should be 41mm/40mm/39mm/38mm. 🙄

Reply
1. MB
  MarkBu says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 10:30
  
  That’s inevitable. I’m very much up for brands releasing watches in a range of sizes, but there’s no such thing as a perfect size and other watches do exist.
  
  Reply
2. Enuona says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 13:16
  
  They are predictably asking for 40 and 12 already 👍🏻
  
  ….meanwhile, the ones preferred whilst remaining firmly beyond budget are 45/15.5/23 and 47/14.8, and neither the budget nor that preference is going to change anytime soon 🤣
  
  Reply
MB
MarkBu says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 10:15

I don’t think there’s anything wrong in pointing out what you see as pros and cons or frankly admitting something isn’t for you, but there’s no need to be aggressive or argumentative about it or assume that every watch needs be aimed at you.

Reply
1. AF
  Freeza says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 11:18
  
  Agree, giving coherent arguments why you might not like something is fine…… and adds to the discourse.
  Barracking or hating on watch Brands like football teams is tiresome.
  
  Reply
DG
GoldenYears says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 11:01

Hi gents,

I am certainly guilty of this misdemeanor as I would suspect many other Fratello commenters are also guilty of from time to time. Mea culpa. I will try to refrain from these kinds of comments in the future.

The good comments and even the critical, whiny ones, actually influence my decisions much more than I would like to admit. Certainly more than the brand ambassadors or fake history background stories, or fluffy marketing mumbo jumbo. So I find value in most of the comments and experiences shared.

The reality is if Fratello wants to be a watch website for everyone, you will have a wide spectrum of commenters from all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds and thus, a wide range of comments.

I remember when I was just starting out as a teenage many ions ago. I’m sure I said similar things (and still do) 😉.

Reply
1. AF
  Freeza says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 11:46
  
  You are one of the good eggs (IMO) Goldenyears. Keep up the comments!!!
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Mar 21, 2024 at 13:05
    
    Thanks, Freeza. You’re one of the good eggs too. 😊
    
    Reply
2. Enuona says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 12:23
  
  Agree, this is a wide coverage site, and has to be related to as that. I have info whatsoever about the economics of Fratello as a business, but somehow believe that narrowing the spectrum would be unfortunate in terms of economic scale.
  
  Somehow believe that a certain level of opinionated and contradictive perspectives is an advantage keeping a pulse to the commentaries, and I believe it makes sense when applied by the authors/writers of articles too. Sometimes watches (or things) are just nice, but if everything were “nice” and there were nothing else to it, why would anyone bother at all?
  
  Not sure if I’m right, but my impression is that Fratello is broadening its perspective on watches too, by e.g. more articles covering philosophical/political and wider historic sides. Makes the site more relevant than the opposite direction which is hailing new releases.
  
  I’m a sinner as good as any, and although I don’t mind rubbing a few feathers the wrong way every now and then, I’m aware that I come across more crass than intended. For that, I apologise. It’s basically about avoiding ambiguity and expressing myself with clarity, thus the intention is not to express the bombastic absolute truth, but being precise in the opinion expressed. Absolute truths are far from facts in my opinion, and I believe a good many of those needs to be challenged.
  
  As far as budgets goes, it certainly put a cap on what I’d purchase, but I refuse to let it impact my aesthetic taste/preferences. It may or may not be good, but it is mine, and has little to do with my budget 🤣
  
  Reply
  1. DG
    GoldenYears says:
    
    Mar 21, 2024 at 13:24
    
    I agree my friend. Just because I don’t like the way someone wrote their comment doesn’t mean their comment has no value.
    
    Comments from all of you have helped shape my view of many watches. I learn so much from all the writers and contributors and everyone has helped me to see flaws in watches I would have missed living in a cave by myself. Everyone has something to contribute, young or old, rich or poor, whiny or not, newcomer or old timer. I take everything I read online with a big pinch of salt anyway. I don’t get stressed by 98% of all the comments. I do get upset when readers attack one another, belittle someone, say unkind or nasty things, attack the writer/editor, and enter into a politically charged attack.
    
    IMO, these are the comments Fratello should be upset about and go after. These are far more damaging to the Fratello community in the big scheme of things and in the long run.
    
    Reply
    1. Enuona says:
      
      Mar 21, 2024 at 14:43
      
      I don’t disagree with you at all about the latter, but we probably have rather different ways of approaching it. Ignoring would be preferable, but that isn’t always that efficient, thus doesn’t prevent recurrence. Unpleasantness sometimes do and might be worth the loss of reputation if there ever was one in the first place. Anyway, my impression is that the trend is downwards, and I believe it is a very good thing if that is more of a fact.
      
      Reply
  2. SC
    Tam O' Banter says:
    
    Mar 22, 2024 at 05:18
    
    I have found that a properly thought-out and sincere criticism of a watch can be just as useful as or even more useful than a positive comment. I have gone back to a photograph to see whether I agree with a comment. It can force a re-evaluation, especially if you trust the commentor. .
    I look forward to the comments from Golden Years, Pelindrome, Eunona and yes, even Warky and Gav! While I have disagreed with them at times, I have learned a lot from them. And sometimes being forced to defend your position makes you understand it more….or…if you are a better man than I often am….admit you are wrong.
    
    Reply
    1. 1Gav1 says:
      
      Mar 22, 2024 at 12:56
      
      Bloody hell! *faints*
      
      Reply
      1. SC
        Tam O’ Banter says:
        
        Mar 23, 2024 at 02:23
        
        😁
        
        Reply
    2. Enuona says:
      
      Mar 22, 2024 at 23:17
      
      You put me into a distinguished company there Tam, would take some effort to live up to the honour, thus I probably shouldn’t get housewarm just yet.
      
      I’d be darned, if that doesn’t mean I actually would have to get myself a decent dresswatch!
      
      Spookie!
      
      In appreciation of the honour, I’d like to share a mantra I prefer to keep not too far back in my mind, entirely without malice or insinuations of any sort (Not sure whether I own it or found it, but I wasn’t able track it down):
      
      “It’s better to take good advice from your worst enemy than bad advice from your best friend.”
      
      Reply
      1. SC
        Tam O’ Banter says:
        
        Mar 23, 2024 at 02:32
        
        Hai, sensei! 🥋
        
        Reply
3. Robert-Jan says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 13:18
  
  The podcast is not so much about leaving critical feedback on a watch, as Lex explained during the recording, but about the excuses that are being used not to buy a watch.
  
  Reply
  1. SC
    Tom O' Banter says:
    
    Mar 22, 2024 at 05:21
    
    Perhaps you could have phrased that slightly differently. Nobody has to buy a watch.
    
    “…..but about the inconsequential and petty criticisms that are posted.”
    
    Reply
    1. Robert-Jan says:
      
      Mar 22, 2024 at 11:08
      
      I think we said that in the podcast actually. You don’t have to buy a watch…
      
      Reply
4. DM
  TacoPants says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 14:05
  
  Yeah, whoopsie. I’m guilty, I know. Good to once and a while look at ones self in the mirror to see if the monster needs some taming haha
  
  Reply
MG
maciej-g says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 11:33

What if someone’s hobby, source of enjoyment is ctiricising, complaining, nitpicking and generally being a pain in the watch?

😉

Reply
MartinM says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 12:29

If only they made these talks in 5 minutes, I would listen to them 😄

Reply
AM
Veliero says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 12:36

Finally it has been said! There are too many comments regarding size and WR being factor in not acquiring and mainly the usual suspects. For example 30m WR is fine for everyday life including swimming, hardly anyone needs or will ever use 100m. Long and short of it, there are many many watches made for all budgets, all shapes and sizes and to suit everyone and no one is going to like everything. Two reasons not to buy, looks and value (and I mean value not price). Whether you buy for €10 or €100k there has to be a value play, both in terms of money and emotion. We don’t really need and expensive watch but emotionally they tick lots of boxes. Regarding watches as investments, this is ruining our hobby, watches should be bought, worn and loved, not bought to make a quick buck. Rant over 😊

Reply
1. berantle says:
  
  Mar 21, 2024 at 17:39
  
  The funny thing is that the watches with 30m WR are daily dress watches usually supplied with leather straps. You don’t want to swim wearing those watches on leather straps. They are not sport watches nor sport adjacent watches. Yet, some believe those watches should have 100m WR 🙄
  
  Reply
Quito says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 13:52

So many watches, and only two wrists. I love seeing what others are wearing to enjoy or show off. It’s a hobby after all.

Reply
1. DP
  DiegoP says:
  
  Mar 23, 2024 at 21:30
  
  Wise reflections…
  I found your comment very funny.
  Also well summarized!
  
  Reply
SL
Scott_GMT-6 says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 14:47

I would have liked this episode if it were shorter.

Reply
GF says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 14:59

I agree on the size specs being deceiving but it seems that none of us are immune. I recall that Lex has several times said that the Rolex OP 41 is too big whereas the 39 was perfect when, if they are actually measured, there is less the 1mm between them and they wear pretty much the same. Rolex are, it seems, not above rounding up or down a little if they think the market will respond to a particular number.

Reply
JM
Joma117 says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 16:52

I really don’t understand what the point of this conversation was. You obviously want people to comment on your articles but now you say to only make nice, complimentary, or thoughtful comments of a certain word length?
Is Fratellos’s policy now the same as kindergarten: “if you have nothing nice to say, then don’t say anything at all?”

Reply
1. Robert-Jan says:
  
  Mar 22, 2024 at 11:10
  
  No, not at all. Our topic was that you don’t have to come up with an excuse not to buy a watch. 😉 We love the comments (as long as they are without name-calling, personal attacks, etc).
  
  Reply
  1. JM
    Joma117 says:
    
    Mar 22, 2024 at 13:24
    
    That does make sense when you put it that way. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek.
    I am a daily reader and sincerely appreciate your great articles, photography, and podcasts. I even often enjoy the opinions and anecdotes from some of your prolific commentors.
    
    Reply
DB
carrbailey says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 16:56

It’s like cars-very personal statement. I used to laugh at ‘low riders’…until I understood what went into them. Now I love them, even if I won’t ever own one. Just like I probably won’t ever own a Richard Mille or a Rolex Daytona Rainbow

Reply
Andrew says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 17:51

Don’t we, with many things in life, speculate as to whether it’s a good idea or not, even if we have no intention of taking the leap into an action at the time? For instance, I often look at a car and evaluate it, even if I’m not in the market to buy a car. Or I evaluate holiday offers even if I’m not intending to go on holiday right now. Or I look at plants in the garden centre even if there’s no place in the border, currently, to put the plant in.
Why do I do this? I think to prepare for the future, when I may need to buy a new car, or want a holiday, or have a space in the border. It’s good to have thought in advance and made a shortlist. Not least because you can think dispassionately rather than under-pressure when emotion comes in. And if you have a pre-prepared shortlist, the search for what you want is greatly simplified.
So, I think it’s normal, and healthy, human behaviour to dispassionately evaluate something, even if you have no intention of buying it at the time. And one of the values of a site like this is to be able to share those dispassionate evaluations.
Where it goes wrong, I think, is where those dispassionate evaluations are pushed as “gospel truth” and that anyone disagreeing is an idiot. We see too many posts like that. At the end of the day, none of us are the gatekeepers of watch truth, there is in fact no such thing as “watch truth”. It’s a very personal hobby, and our opinion is just our own and no more valid than anyone else’s. I wish all contributors would understand this!

Reply
1. SC
  Tam O' Banter says:
  
  Mar 22, 2024 at 05:29
  
  Agreed. Let’s face it. This is a community. A lot of us post daily. I post on the way to work. I am at lunch now. 🙂
  
  Reply
EB
EDDI2142 says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 20:33

“You should always try a watch” – couldn’t agree more!

Since I have limited time that I can allocate to writing comments here, I have a tendency to skip writing negative comments. I tell myself if I can’t contribute something constructive, then it’s not worth my time.
Please call me out if I go against this in a future post 😉

The Craig White really made me chuckle =D

Reply
1. Brainfood says:
  
  Mar 24, 2024 at 18:13
  
  As a daily reader I’d wish more commenters would follow your tendency 😉
  
  Reply
DI
dji_1 says:

Mar 21, 2024 at 21:19

RJ what about Snoopy 2 vs the “Craig White”, which do you like more?

Reply
1. Robert-Jan says:
  
  Mar 22, 2024 at 11:24
  
  Hmmm… I think the Snoopy 2 (2015), but also because of the case back that is so special.
  
  Reply
Rv
Roy-65 says:

Mar 22, 2024 at 13:49

Having bought a lot of watches in a wide price range I take some aspects in account.
Surely the price is an important one.
First and mostly I have to like the watch and secondly it has to look good on me.
By liking I mean not only the visual aspects but also the technical aspects.
And then the price comes into play.
When I get the feeling the watch is not worth the price, I skip it and look for something else.
No big deal.

Reply
RW
Richard says:

Mar 22, 2024 at 14:24

My first reaction to this podcast is that the Fratello staff is misinterpreting what motivates watch enthusiasts (and commentors) to react to the price of a watch, and make comments about dimensions and lugs. I think there is a disconnect between how the Fratello staff react to new watches (in a professional fashion, with a certain level of objectivity), and how we commentors react to new watches (more emotionally, and in a more personal and less objective fashion).

Upon reflection, I think you’ve made some excellent and thought-provoking points about how collectors can better appreciate and react to new watch releases, prices, lug widths, water resistance and watches that are out of our price range. These are points all collectors can learn from.

Thanks for this excellent episode.

Reply
DP
Diego P says:

Mar 23, 2024 at 14:07

If the size is correct, the price is affordable for the budget and you like it then there are no valid excuses not to buy that beauty.

Reply
EH
Lerik says:

Mar 24, 2024 at 02:47

It must have been therapeutic for the Fratello staff to make this episode.

Fully agree with what was said. I have “eye rolls” when browsing the comments section for most articles. I’m always amazed how the staff are so patient with these comments with their replies.

Reply
SF
SteveF says:

Mar 24, 2024 at 15:00

Lex, you guys have to get that presentation from Seiko and write an article about it – the upgrades that define the 6R55 have never been clearly explained and the structural changes to the case to make the watch thinner and stronger are worth celebrating.

Hopefully Seiko realizes this kind of engineering information is what enthusiasts love and share it more widely in the future.

Reply
tjduncan says:

Mar 24, 2024 at 16:49

This conversation is too big, should have been 40 mm

Reply
Jorge Robles says:

Mar 27, 2024 at 02:29

I agree that watch collecting is a personal choice when it comes to types of watches, materials or brands. I started to collect watches in the early 1970s when I was given an Oris by my late beloved Grandma, and i loved wearing it!!! I eventually got more watches, both cheap pin-pallet watches, to very sophisticated ones. But all of them had what I wanted- they were OF MY LIKE AND CHOICE!!!!

Reply